Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

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Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Canon 10-12 "grey" for around $850 from DWI /ddp
4
57%
Tokina 11-16 "grey" for around $750 from DWI/ddp
2
29%
Sigma 10-20 f3.5 "non grey" for $680 from CRKennedy
0
No votes
Sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 "non grey" for $550 from CRKennedy
1
14%
 
Total votes : 7

Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:12 pm

Hi, I only joind the forum today.

I can't for the life of me make a decision out of this lot. For my Canon 550D btw.

I'm not interested in any others, just the 4 in the poll. So please don't comment on the Tamrons, the Sigma 8-16 etc.

I can't decide if I should trust importing a "grey" lens and hope that it wouldn't need sending back for any corrections or repairs.

Would the Canon 10-22 or Tokina 11-16 likely need any calibrating or adjusting out of the box?

If I bought through DWI I would use PayPal of course. I am now aware that ddphotographics is another option

The Sigma lenses would come with a 2 year warranty, and CRKennedy are local so I can trust buying through them.

Please offer your advice
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby surenj on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:31 pm

You are going to have a hard time choosing between Tamron and Canon. You will have to carefully think about potential use of fast aperture vs zoom range vs resale value. There isn't much difference in IQ between the two. Good luck.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:49 pm

The Tokina you mean, yeah I thought the same really, and I don't know which would be better. I guess the aperture of te Canon isn't too far behind the Tok, that might help pursuade me towards the 10-22 I guess.

Is the Canon sharp at f3.5?
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby surenj on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:51 pm

kobeson wrote:Is the Canon sharp at f3.5?

I haven't used it at that aperture. It's not a very lanscape friendly aperture you see. :wink:
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:25 pm

Yeah I see myself using it for more than just landscapes, I'd like to be able to shoot handheld in low light conditions, also like close up focus shots with bokeh done with UWA. There's more than landscapes to shoot at 10-11mm IMO - a lot of people don't see it that way, I'd like to shoot all kinds of UWA shots. That's why the Tokina is attracting me :D
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby aim54x on Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 pm

The Tokina is my preference. You will get more resale on the Canon, but the Tokina is optically stronger, much better into the corners. The best part about buying from DDP is that you can go and rip their arms off if it goes sour!
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby Wink on Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:47 pm

kobeson wrote:also like close up focus shots with bokeh done with UWA.

Have you done that before?
I'm not sure that will be possible with an UWA, but i don't really know.

I love my Canon 10-22mm. I use it all the time! :D
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby aim54x on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:13 pm

Wink wrote:
kobeson wrote:also like close up focus shots with bokeh done with UWA.

Have you done that before?
I'm not sure that will be possible with an UWA, but i don't really know.

I love my Canon 10-22mm. I use it all the time! :D


I have done close ups with me Tokina 10-17mm f/3.5-4.5 Fisheye. This lens has a minimum focus distance of 14cm, and a reproduction value of 1:2.56.

Image

Image

BUT the 11-16 has a minimum focus distance of 30cm and a reproduction value of 1:11.6 so it wont be ideal for this work (maybe with an extension tube?)
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby biggerry on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:21 pm

I think you really need to weigh of the two primary differences between teh tokina and the others
it all boils down to:
f-stop and zoom range

if you really really need the f2.8 then the tokina is the way to go, however and I speak from experience here, the tokinas zoom range is pitiful, it might as well be a prime. Hence the 10-22 has a significant advantage in this regard. Before you say, 'I have that range covered so I will just swap lens', think carefully about that too! I have the 11-16mm tokina and the nikkor 17-55mm which covers the range nicely but having something that covers 11-22 (for example) would be more beneficial in hindsight, I always find my self at the wide angle of the 17-55 and the tele end of the 11-16 saying, 'damn I wish I had a bit more room to move'.

All that said the sharpness and the f2.8 on the tokina have been very useful for me, particularly doing very tightly spaced interiors in poor light. for example.

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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:44 am

Wink wrote:
kobeson wrote:also like close up focus shots with bokeh done with UWA.

Have you done that before?
I'm not sure that will be possible with an UWA, but i don't really know.

I love my Canon 10-22mm. I use it all the time! :D


I have seen some shots with the Canon and the Tokina with close up focus, you should give it a try at f3.5. I don't mean macro close, just as close as it can go.

Do you shoot much with your Canon @ f3.5? Have you tried much handheld in low-light? I just wonder how the Canon performs at f3.5 and if there would be much of a difference to the Tok at f2.8?
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:52 am

aim54x wrote:
Wink wrote:
kobeson wrote:also like close up focus shots with bokeh done with UWA.

Have you done that before?
I'm not sure that will be possible with an UWA, but i don't really know.

I love my Canon 10-22mm. I use it all the time! :D


I have done close ups with me Tokina 10-17mm f/3.5-4.5 Fisheye. This lens has a minimum focus distance of 14cm, and a reproduction value of 1:2.56.

Image

Image

BUT the 11-16 has a minimum focus distance of 30cm and a reproduction value of 1:11.6 so it wont be ideal for this work (maybe with an extension tube?)


Yes, the MFD of the Tokina is 30cm and the Canon is 24cm from what I have read. Sorry, I didn't mean macro close, just as close as it can go. I have seen some shots with both lenses wide open with close focus (as close as possible I guess) and they both produced some decent bokeh for such wide lenses. The Tokina @ f2.8/30cm probably produces similar bokeh to the Canon @ f3.5/24cm.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:57 am

biggerry wrote:I think you really need to weigh of the two primary differences between teh tokina and the others
it all boils down to:
f-stop and zoom range

if you really really need the f2.8 then the tokina is the way to go, however and I speak from experience here, the tokinas zoom range is pitiful, it might as well be a prime. Hence the 10-22 has a significant advantage in this regard. Before you say, 'I have that range covered so I will just swap lens', think carefully about that too! I have the 11-16mm tokina and the nikkor 17-55mm which covers the range nicely but having something that covers 11-22 (for example) would be more beneficial in hindsight, I always find my self at the wide angle of the 17-55 and the tele end of the 11-16 saying, 'damn I wish I had a bit more room to move'.

All that said the sharpness and the f2.8 on the tokina have been very useful for me, particularly doing very tightly spaced interiors in poor light. for example.

Image
Image


Man, those shots are damn sharp! This is what has me favouring the Tokina slightly - well, and the poll :D

But yes, it is down to range vs aperture.

I could definitely see myself using the 16-22 of the Canon, that is why I am strongly considering it. I wonder how well it performs handheld in low light - I can see myself doing a bit of urban shooting at night where I might not be able to use a tripod all the time, that's the other reason I am considering the Tokina.

Do you think the Canon at f3.5 would be much worse off than the Tokina at f2.8?

And the sharpness differences between the two lenses - some reviews claim there is a gap, others claim the Canon is pretty much L glass without the red ring. It's difficult going on people's opinions and then ordering blindly. I can't find a Tokina in a store to try out, and it's just as hard to find a Canon in stores also.

I would love to hear from people who have used both lenses ideally I guess, but that's probably rare - I don't think many who had bought the Canon would want to upgrade it.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby biggerry on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:30 am

Man, those shots are damn sharp!


yeah the 11-16 tokina for me is basically equivalent to my 17-55mm which is damn sharp.

kobeson wrote:I can't find a Tokina in a store to try out,


yeah thats a pain, the best thing is to be able to try a few lens on your body and compare the images later at home, if you were in sydney and runnign with nikon I would be happy to lend you mine for a quick bash - but seeing your canon and in sunny Melbourne thats about as useful as tits on a bull. :?
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:00 pm

Haha yes, sunny Melbourne here working on my tan as I type ;)

So where did you buy your Tokina from? Local store, or an importer?

And do you wish you had gone with one of the Sigma 10-20 lenses instead? Or does the sharpness of the Tok outweigh the lack of range - even though you do find yourself missing out on the 16-20?

I know the Nikon alternative is quite pricey, no doubt you would have bought that lens if it was comparative.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby biggerry on Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:11 pm

kobeson wrote:So where did you buy your Tokina from? Local store, or an importer?


DD Photographics Sydney- they come recommended by me since my experience with the them has been all good

kobeson wrote:And do you wish you had gone with one of the Sigma 10-20 lenses instead?
:up:

the grass is always greener on teh other side, I made the compromise knowing that I wanted the tokina which had the f2.8 and was damn sharp, the sigma, when I looked at it was defeated in both areas, it was also a sigma :cough:

kobeson wrote:outweigh the lack of range

I always knew the range would cause me some grief, but at the end of the day I don't think I miss that many shots as a result of it and more importantly I think I have picked up alot more shots at f2.8 which I would have not been able to get and they were for situations where it mattered, not some landscape thing for my own benefit.

kobeson wrote:nikon alternative is quite pricey, no doubt you would have bought that lens if it was comparative.


there is nothing from nikon for the DX in that range for me
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:07 pm

Yeah I am unsure if I would take many shots in the 16-22 range, but it would be nice to be able to zoom up to 20 (Sig) or 22 (Can) if I could - but then again, the f2,8 abd sharp Tok would be nice.

Damn, I wish this process was easier!!! :evil:

But ddp sounds good, if they don't stock something can you order from d-d-electronics? Are they the same company?

The prices are different, are they local stock from ddp but imported from dde?
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby Wink on Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:39 pm

kobeson wrote:Do you shoot much with your Canon @ f3.5? Have you tried much handheld in low-light?

I've shot HEAPS of shots in low light handheld when i was OS recently.
I shot from f/3.5 to f/5.6 with shutter speeds from a 10-20th second regularly in doors.
Have a look through the 'Travel' albums on my site if you like.

All of the car photos i have are done with the same lens. You see how sharp it is in those photos. They're at f/8 though.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby aim54x on Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:56 pm

Try Camera Action Camera House, I know Mozzie got hers there (via the internet) so they may have one in stock. The brand is getting suffocated by the importer...ADEAL. Get it grey if you have to, they carry a 2 yr international warranty that ADEAL claims they will honour when I enquired about it a while ago...too bad I bought my 10-17 via the forum and have no invoice.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:58 pm

Thanks, will have a look at them. I will get it from wherever is cheapest, as Adeal said they all come with an international warranty regardless of where purchased.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:14 am

I think I am narrowing it down a bit - I have eliminated the Sigma f3.5.

Frst choice would be Canon, but if I cant afford will settle for the Sigma f4-5.6. The Tokina's lack of range would bother me I think, despite having the fastest aperture and best sharpness.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby surenj on Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:47 am

kobeson wrote:best sharpness

Practically speaking the sharpness would be similar for a non-pro.
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:38 pm

surenj wrote:Practically speaking the sharpness would be similar for a non-pro.


Are you saying between all of the lenses the sharpness is negligible for a non-pro? This is one thing that reading opinions on the net can make confusing I find...

(I may have mentioned somewhere) I just wish there was a local shop that stocked the Tokina so I could have a play - I have tried the Canon a couple of times, and will try the Sigma soon I think
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby surenj on Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:00 am

kobeson wrote:I have eliminated the Sigma f3.5.

I assumed that you had eliminated the Sigma. :lol:
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Re: Which UWA option should I go with out of the following?

Postby kobeson on Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:06 am

Well yeah, it just doesn't seem like many people have it, or would buy it - makes me wonder why they bothered releasing it, especially with the 8-16 to be released later on. The speed is an attraction, but not at the cost of quality, and the extra $ from the 4-5.6.
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