Noise

[Oneputt]

Every time I lift the ISO, I am dismayed at the amount of noise on the image.

Example - shooting some ducks late yesterday afternoon in shade. Bumped the ISO to 640 (not overly high). Got the shots that I wanted, open them up in PS and they are all noisy.

I have Neat Image and can remove some of it but I am interested in how others avoid this problem.

[Greg B]

oneputt - are you using the d70 specific settings in Neat Image? I have had impressive results (not your main question, I know, just interested)

cheers

[Oneputt]

Greg I have only just started using the program so your question has thrown me Where do I look for the D70 specific settings?

[JordanP]

If find the case similar if I have tended to under expose the image in the first place. If exposed correctly I don't get the noise issues even at higher ISO settings.

If you are shooting in Programe mode you might be still underexposing your shots just a little as the metering on the D70 tends to be a little under in my experience.

You could perhaps dial in some exposure compensation to get around this or perhaps try using the spot meter - in some cases where the darker portion of your image is in the center this may help a little.

[Oneputt]

Shooting in apeture priority, and for this exercise reset the EV in camera to 0. Normally shoot at -0.7.

[sirhc55]

Oneputt - may I ask are you shooting jpgs or raw?

Chris

[Oneputt]

In RAW Chris.

[sirhc55]

Thanks oneputt - I shot some stuff the other day at 800iso (forgot to look at what I had set) and noticed noise.

Interestingly enough if I shoot 800 in daylight (by mistake) there is more noise than if I shoot the same iso at night!

Chris

[owen]

I shot at ISO 800 in a hospital (of a couples new baby) and noticed some terrible noise on both their shirts. However, the baby's face was hardly noisy at all. I do tend to agree that the bits that are properly exposed tend to be less noisy.

[Oneputt]

My photographic buddy is a Cannon man and even when he shoots at 1600 he doesn't get the problem to the same degree.

[Onyx]

Control your exposures - as stated by other posters, proper exposure controls noise extremely well. In areas of underexposure, noise will be more visible. Are you optimising your histogram (ie. shooting to the right?)

Turn off in-camera sharpening. This exacebates random noise in smooth areas (eg. sky).

[Greg B]

Greg I have only just started using the program so your question has thrown me Where do I look for the D70 specific settings?

oneputt, go here...

http://www.neatimage.com/

and download and install the noise profile set for the d70. It includes specific settings for every ISO setting on the d70, and improves the results significantly.

[Oneputt]

Great stuff, thanks for that Greg

[Oneputt]

Onyx I have the in camera sharpening turned off, and in theory at least using apeture priority mode, exposure control should not be a problem, or am I missing something?

[Hlop]

Control your exposures - as stated by other posters, proper exposure controls noise extremely well. In areas of underexposure, noise will be more visible. Are you optimising your histogram (ie. shooting to the right?)

This is an interesting moment. I always control exposure and trying to avoid highlights. But in this case, just imagine bright sky with white clouds and rocks on the sea cost, if I set exposure compensation to keep all details of the clouds, rock's shadows are becoming too dark or extremely noisy if I'm triyng to brighten them in post-processing (e.g. "shadows and highlights" function of PS).

Any suggestions how to handle these things?

[owen]

One way is to take two shots - one exposing for the sky and one for the rocks and then merge them in Photoshop... otherwise expose for the sky and then underexpose it a few stops so you get the in between value - I guess just experiment with that until you get the shot you want.

[Hlop]

One way is to take two shots - one exposing for the sky and one for the rocks and then merge them in Photoshop... otherwise expose for the sky and then underexpose it a few stops so you get the in between value - I guess just experiment with that until you get the shot you want.

First solution sounds good when you taking pictures of a still life and far from perfect when you have moving objects.

Second one is about the same as exposure compensation and that's what I'm doing. But in this case you're loosing some white details or getting deep shadows

[owen]

Do you have any custom curves installed? I have found (in my VERY short experience with this camera) that some of them give you better details in the lighter areas whilst giving better than the normal setting in the darker areas.... perhaps if you combine a good curve with exposure compensation?

[Hlop]

Do you have any custom curves installed? I have found (in my VERY short experience with this camera) that some of them give you better details in the lighter areas whilst giving better than the normal setting in the darker areas.... perhaps if you combine a good curve with exposure compensation?

No, I don't. Actually, I have very short experience with DSLR myself and I'm not quite sure how to handle custom curves and what they are doing

[owen]

There are a few sites you can download curves from and the best way to see what they do is to shoot in RAW and then in Nikon Capture you can apply each curve to the image and then decide which serves you best. Otherwise you can set the curve to custom in camera and that will be applied to the jpegs you shoot.

I'll send you an email that I used to learn about curves if you like.

[Hlop]

There are a few sites you can download curves from and the best way to see what they do is to shoot in RAW and then in Nikon Capture you can apply each curve to the image and then decide which serves you best. Otherwise you can set the curve to custom in camera and that will be applied to the jpegs you shoot.

I'll send you an email that I used to learn about curves if you like.

Appreciate that.

I'm shooting RAW but using PS RAW plug-in. Didn't try NC yet

[sirhc55]

Control your exposures - as stated by other posters, proper exposure controls noise extremely well. In areas of underexposure, noise will be more visible. Are you optimising your histogram (ie. shooting to the right?)

This is an interesting moment. I always control exposure and trying to avoid highlights. But in this case, just imagine bright sky with white clouds and rocks on the sea cost, if I set exposure compensation to keep all details of the clouds, rock's shadows are becoming too dark or extremely noisy if I'm triyng to brighten them in post-processing (e.g. "shadows and highlights" function of PS).

Any suggestions how to handle these things?

It is better to under expose so that you retain highlights and then work the curves in NC or PS. Once a highlight is blown you can’t get it back.

The other answer is to bracket your shots then do a layer blend in PS

Chris

[Hlop]

It is better to under expose so that you retain highlights and then work the curves in NC or PS. Once a highlight is blown you can’t get it back.

100% agree about highlights but then darker areas are becoming noisy

The other answer is to bracket your shots then do a layer blend in PS

Good method for still life IMHO. And extremely bad when you have to PP 100 or more images.

Usally, I set exposure compensation to 0.3 or 0.7 to underexpose and in most cases it does a trick but sometimes this noise in the dark areas makes me sick

And yeah, I'm almost always set to ISO 200

[digitor]

Trying too pull too much detail from underexposed areas is the main reason for excessive noise in an image - I just finished processing a heap of shots taken in a rainforest environment, what a nightmare! Deep shadows, and always a tiny bit of sky in the frame. Histogram from edge to edge.

The deafult settings for the PS Shadow/Highlight are a bit savage in my opinion - try turning the amount down to 20%, and width to 15%. Turn the highlight amount down to 0%. See what happens with this, it will give you a useful shadow boost without showing too much noise.

DEE in NC is similar, it needs turning down a fair bit to avoid getting an artificial looking result. Good luck!

Cheers

[mudder]

G'day,

I've been playing with DDE in Nikon Capture and find it very useful, but the default settings are driving me crazy, and when I update one figure/field the damn thing calculates all over again... Trying to update the three fields takes at least two goes and that's if I'm quick enough to update two figures before it starts calculating... Quite frustrating

Can anyone advise as to how to either:
A) Update the default settings to something more useable (or just what-ever the user desires to start from as opposed to the current defaults which are too severe). Saving the settings to a config file seems to just enable the ability to recall them later, rather than setting the default settings for all future oerations
B) Can it be configured to only start calculating when the user honks on a button or something, rather than simply starting automatically?

Dumb question, but the answer would help me heaps...

Thanks in advance for any advice...

Cheers,
Mudder

[Greg B]

I just had a quick look in the manual mudder, but no joy there. You might want to download it if you haven't already and have a more detailed look. It is a free download on the nikon site.

[mudder]

I just had a quick look in the manual mudder, but no joy there. You might want to download it if you haven't already and have a more detailed look. It is a free download on the nikon site.

Was just about to head out and got your message... Thanks for checking Greg, I'll have a sticky and see if there's a way...

Thanks mate

Cheers,
Mudder

[digitor]

G'day,

I've been playing with DDE in Nikon Capture and find it very useful, but the default settings are driving me crazy, and when I update one figure/field the damn thing calculates all over again... SNIP

B) Can it be configured to only start calculating when the user honks on a button or something, rather than simply starting automatically?
...Cheers,
Mudder

Hi Mudder,

I haven't found a way to change the defaults, but you can load a DEE preset before clicking the "Apply" button, which helps a bit. NC is a bit of a RAM hog, so if you havn't got plenty, it's a bit slow - DEE would be about the slowest function of the lot as well.

Cheers

[Hlop]

DEE in NC is similar, it needs turning down a fair bit to avoid getting an artificial looking result.

Hi digitor,

What are typical settings you're using with DEE? Defaults are 20 for shadows and highlights and 190(?) threshold. What are you using to make it look naturally?

[digitor]

Hi digitor,

What are typical settings you're using with DEE? Defaults are 20 for shadows and highlights and 190(?) threshold. What are you using to make it look naturally?

That depends a lot on the photo, but starting at about 10 for the shadows, 1 for the highlights, (the minimum) and changing the threshold to about 100 so that only the dark bits get lightened seems to work ok. Try the settings though, it depends a lot on the pic, and its intended use. I'm not trying to make my shots look like something off the pages of a magazine (grossly over-fill-flashed) but rather with a full tonal range.

Cheers

[lejazzcat]

Every time I lift the ISO, I am dismayed at the amount of noise on the image.

Example - shooting some ducks late yesterday afternoon in shade. Bumped the ISO to 640 (not overly high). Got the shots that I wanted, open them up in PS and they are all noisy.

I have Neat Image and can remove some of it but I am interested in how others avoid this problem.

Hmmm , i dont have a D70 yet , and that doesnt sound too good to me .
(i know High ISO and low light = noise in the shadows(red and green pixels)

But ISO 640 , is this the common experience with this camera? Thats still very low ISO!

Ill stick to film & scanner (in low light) if thats the case.
Can't it handle high contast/key, silhouette's, film noir (B&W) style lighting?

[Hlop]

Hmmm , i dont have a D70 yet , and that doesnt sound too good to me .
(i know High ISO and low light = noise in the shadows(red and green pixels)

But ISO 640 , is this the common experience with this camera? Thats still very low ISO!

C'mon! It's not too bad as it sounds
I set ISO 800 for handheld shooting forthis pic Then I used Neat Image with D70 profile but there is no dramas. I've got few more pictures in that gallery with ISO 800 and with or without internal flash. EXIFs available

Also, if you'd like to get noise (to make film type noise effect) there is very simple method to trnasform color noise to "good" grey noise in PS